to anyone

[2-bad]

sup yall i just wondered how come we dont have a nationed wide bboy comp itll be a group evnt and mega phat so peeps from all over dah uk colud breack for something worth it also how come there is no televiesd breacking its a sport on the uprise and well it sholud have it by now and last but not leaset why dont they turn our urban games into a bigger thing. one more thing why oh why dont we have battle of dah year qulifier?

peace dawgs


[This message has been edited by 2-bad (edited 26 August 2001).]

[This message has been edited by 2-bad (edited 26 August 2001).]

[B-boy Timber, BCB]

I could just see Murry Walker commentating it (off off off off, he's windmilled into the crowd), hahahaha http://www.bboylinks.com/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.bboylinks.com/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.bboylinks.com/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.bboylinks.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Peace

------------------
Colin,
Style Is Everything Cru / Belfast City Breakers
B-boy Timber aka DJ Phat Chops

'Signin autographs on the inside of toilet doors!!!'

[2hip]

Na mate, Richie Benaud!!! 'What a beauty, a leg cutter windmill', i can just see some bboy shouting 'oowzattttt' after a few drills on a headspin http://www.bboylinks.com/ubb/smile.gif

As for the serious end of what your asking. Yup the uk needs a uk only comp, BUT wasn't that being done at butlins or summin? It would be nice to see a comp though were all uk heads could come together, plus poppers and lockers too!

[kama]

2bad, bboying ain't NO SPORT, unless ur a gymnast, check da history bro...
kama

[Seraph]

Kama,
I am aware that I am setting myself up to recieve a lot off flack by saying what follows, but since this is a discussion forum I'm going to post it up anyways.
I entirely accept that breaking/bboying may not have originated as a sport but there has always been a very pronounced sporting link to breaking. Although perhaps not in the more classical sense. If you read the following definition of 'sport' (taken from the Cambridge English Dictionary as seems 'de riguer' in posts at the moment) you will notice that breaking does in fact match many of the criteria necessary to be deemed a sport given that competetion, physical effort and skill are all integral parts of what we do:

sport (GAME) noun
a game, competition or activity needing physical effort and skill that is played or done according to rules, for enjoyment and/or as a job.

[kama]

wsup seraph, i hear wat ur saying but then how come all those come dancing comps are still regarded as dance and not as sport, see, da majority of sport does not have music playing in their event apart from some gymnastics and skating but when music is played they are never dancing with the music, it is just their for some reason, i got more on dis subject but i think big bro. is watching at work hehe, anyway hope 2 see u soon mate
peace
kama

[M-Phatic F10]

"a game, competition or activity needing physical effort and skill that is played or done according to rules, for enjoyment and/or as a job."

You're not wrong in what you're saying if you break it down technically. It is competitive and most people do it for enjoyment, the very few and priveliged do it as a job. It can be a game and it takes physical effort.

But the rules are not definitive enough, and it is not recognised as a sport (I've had trouble hiring venues for teaching because it's not recognised as a sport). And the first thing that comes into my head when the word Breakin is mentioned is a DANCE form, second thought is Art, third thought is Bebiche sporting a thong and a NCFC scarf.

Skating is classed as a sport, so why couldn't Breakin be classed as a sport?

I'm not saying that it is a sport but, how would everyone else feel itf it was suddenly officially classed as a sport?

[Bboy inertia]

kama
I hear what your saying with the music thing, but who says all sports have to conform? Why cant we progress for the new millenium and have a sport thats music-orientated? just cos theres been none up to now.

I like the idea of thinking of it as a sport, it opens the culture up to more people, i know you all like the whole underground thing but I think its a much better attitude to be open to all people and spread the culture to everyone, rather than holding onto it for ourselves. Seling out and commercialisation aint what im talking about so dont flak me with what happened in the 80s, but I think the culture needs to be spread a lot more than it is being.

Peace
Bboy Inertia

[Seraph]

There are a lot of very good points being raised on this subject.
I think that the definition of anything that could broadly be deemed a sport could be dictated by what level you pursue it at. For example, The Oxford/Cambidge Boat Race is definately a sport performed by sportsmen but a guy in a dinghy is simply some guy in a dinghy. This has many parallels like the FA cup compared to kids playing soccer in the park. Although somwhat tenous as a link I see breaking on a similar level. What we do in this country(to whatever standard) is primarily for our own enjoyment and consequently not a sport(besides would you deem yourself a 'sportsman' because you're a bboy?) but I would say that a battle, for example, between the French Allstars and the USA Allstars is more closely linked to being a sport due to the level that the competitors are competing at and the 'prestige' that is at stake.
Just my opinion. Please pick some holes in it http://www.bboylinks.com/ubb/redface.gif).
Peace

[Seraph]

Whats that red thing on the post above mean?
I didn't put it there!!!

[2hip]

Dunno if this has been said, as i don't have time to read all the posts. But really why does the music make any difference??? You can't play Cricket without a bat, you can't play Rugby without a ball. Bboys do have one thing they need to play the sport, music. Im not saying bboying should or shouldn't be a sport, but im just pointing out that really Music is just like a Ball to a football player. You can't throw down without music now can you?!!!!

[Seraph]

.....or a floor

[skam]

breakin a sport? bboy = boogie boy, break boy, beat boy etc.. i don't see any G for gboy = gym boy, gayboy or gyroscopeboy....... i hope jazz and tap dancers don't think about their dance becoming a sport lol
keep hip hop in it's real contexts other wise it ain't hip hop. there is a lot of shit we don't know about this dance.. 1 thing i do know is that breakin is about being creative, so in my books it's an art of body expression and movements which is done to music.. dosen't that make it a dance?


peace

if it was a sport we could all wate up untill the early houres of the morning watching it at the olimpics only to realize that the u.s. are still going to beet us .

[JB]

I'm still waiting to see a world class gymnast pull air-flares but I guess it'll be quite a while before the mens floorwork discipline has a new move added to the mandatory moves list.

Seems like the only b-boy influence on professional gymnastics are windmills...... and the occasional 1990 dismount (or were they doing those before b-boys?).

If breakin' became a sport anyone over 18 may as well give up.

[Seraph]

Skam,
My arugument is that breaking, or more accurately battling, IS competetive and therefore could arguably be deemed a sport. Of course breaking is about expression, of course breaking is a dance and of course it is also an art but the fact remains that if two sides are going to compete for victory against each other then it is only natural that comparisons with sport will be drawn.

JB
I agree totally that it would be cool to see more braking moves make the transition to gymnastics but the problem is that if it did happen the credit for the move would go to the first gymnast to perform it not to bboys around the world who had pioneered it. Also the name given to and airflare in gymnastics would probably not be an airflare, the first guy to perform it would probably name it after himself to make his mark on gymnastics. Not that I am a cynic or anything.

Peace

[flash]

fuck that breakin as a sport, dam man its a culture, its got to have that street edge not like keeping all your legs straight and all that bollacks in gymnastic, b-boyin has to have a street feel to it otherwise it would be all fags doing it though its good to have some airmoves, but even the flares that b-boys do might have been taken from gymnastics but is different by the time a gymnas has done 2 rotation b-boys would have done 4 and plus are shit is off the floor i get gymnas coming to me saying we could get this airflare in 2-3 months if someone showed me the move and they think they can dance as well and on top of that they think the freezes are a lot of crap and easy as they do'nt understand what the b-boys are doing if it was a sport i definently would not be doing it there would not be a ruf edge to it and there would be no battles...

[kama]

hmmm, still can't get my head round breakin or battling being a sport, i mean when 2 martial artists go at it or even 2 tap dancers, cos they would be battling nuff on da streets back in da day, is it really a sport? i know they, as in the media, class it as a sport nowadays(martial arts that is) but is it really? i mean having 2 people or groups competing against each other doesn't mean it is a sport, sometimes i think they call certain arts a sport so they can make money from it...dunno, wat do peeps think
peace
fOUNdAtION CrEW

[BEN SWIFT]

WORLDS STRONGEST MAN IS BEING SHOWN AT THE MOMENT. IT'S ON LIKE EVERY EVENING, PRIME TIME SLOT. YOU POWER HITTERS COULD HAVE A TV SERIES ON A SIMILAR LEVEL, FAR MORE INTRESTING THAN SOME FAT BLOKE LIFTING A SERIES OF HEAVY OBLECTS, WOW!

BUT BREAKING A SPORT? LOOK AT SKATEBOARDING, WHEN I USED TO SKATE IT WAS UNDERGROUND AND ALL ABOUT KEEPING IT STREET. NOW YOU'VE GOT CORPERATE GIANTS SPONSORING SKATEPARKS, AND BIG MONEY EVENTS LIKE X GAMES. THINGS CHANGE.

BUT A DANCE BECOMING A SPORT, MMM? WE JUST NEED MORE JAMS AND EVENTS.

TOO MUCH FUN!

[M-Phatic F10]

I don't think that by making breakin a sport, it would kill it. It deserves to be recognized for what it is, and if it comes under the classification of sport, then fair enough.

I think that if you had more structure to the culture, it would become much more widespread and the appeal and knowledge available would be greater to those who don't know much about it as the organisation behind the dance form would be that much greater.

But this isn't going to happen, so this discussion doesn't resolve much other than seeing which breakers would be offended by labelling Breakin as sport.

I personally, wouldn't be offended.

Boxing - Thats classified as a sport yet I see it as an art, do you think boxers are f**ked off to have their art form labelled as a sport?

[JB]

M - you've been puffin' da 'erb again!

In the future when the olympic commission realise there is a target audience for breakin and they make up THEIR OWN governing rules for breakin' competitions and remove the soul from the DANCE (i.e. they make it so that there are mandatory disciplines that are judged on how close to perfection they are executed), we can wave goodbye to flavor, individual style, any on the spur of the moment moves, improvisation, reaction to the music (do you honestly think that the music would be the same as what we dance to at our events with MCs f-ing and blinding all over the place??), the best breakers wouldn't bother with non-competition battles (they would not want to risk the injury of ad-hoc battles in night clubs, especially if they are not paid their professional fees!).

The whole idea of it becoming a sport sucks.

....unless I become one of the olympic advisors and get paid shit loads of cash to do it.

[M-Phatic F10]

Okay, let me try and make myself clearer.

I think that breakin needs more organisation, more so within the UK rather than on a global basis. I, as a person, am competitive and enjoy a lot of sports and leisure activities.

If it became a sport, it would restrict evolution of the dance form, it would take away the spontaneity in organised events, but I think it would help preserve its future. Lets face it, do we have enough young breakers coming through to carry it on for the next generation after that?

I dunno? But I do want to see it carry on for a long time and if it mean't that it had to become a sport to do this, then let it be.

Also, you could still do your own thing e.g. you can play for a football team and abide by the rules or you can go down the park and have a game of headers and volleys and just piss about, they're both still the same thing.

So if it did become a sport and there were rules to it within organised events, it doesn't mean that it will stop people from doing what they want, does it?!

Also, if you look at any competition in recent years, more specifically the UK Champs last year, and the year before - that nearly put you off going to any further big events JB, so who's to say that by creating a structure and abiding by it, that it could be any worse than last years fiasco?!!

I'm just trying to remain open minded about it, and not trying saying that it should be this or that (even if it has come across like that), the main thing is keeping it alive.

[Bboy inertia]

You're missing the point.
If breaking got recognised, it would be because people admired and liked the culture. They wouldnt say "Ok come do some of your moves to a set piece of music and we'll rate how perfectly executed it all is".

They would recognise that bboying is about creativity and expression, take something like rhythmic gymnastics. The routines are pretty much up to the individual people to create, sure they have to include certain things, but that wouldn't have to be the case. You would simply get people judging who were pillars in the BBoy community like Ken swift, storm etc. In any sport, the judges are authorities on the sport, it just happens that these guys are our authorities. And then youd decide on a judging scheme which should be the case anyway. Something like
Points for dancing to the beat
Toprock
Individual style
Execution
Originality

Things which we rate anyway, you would just have an official scoring system. All you people are just getting fired up at the idea of it not being underground, just because you all like the idea of being involved in something underground, maybe it makes you feel badass :P But theres no reason what we do couldnt be classed and seen as a sport, get some good media coverage etc.

Peace
Bboy Inertia

[M-Phatic F10]

Oh, and I haven't been smoking anything.

But I will be in about 8 hours!!! http://www.bboylinks.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Signing out

The Red Eye Jedi,
Rollmeone

[The Punisher]

Here's my two pence worth. Sport at the
end of the day is ritualised combat.
Anything in which you prove that your
are better than some one is equivalent to
ritalised combat. If you want some junior
anthropology; your a cave man, you have
to prove your genetic supperiorty; you
could:

a) Have a fight.
The problem with this is that you could
get hurt, or could be seriously injured.
Not good.
b) Have some game ritualising combat.
Everyone gets a go, no one gets hurt.

In many cultures this ritualised combat
was dance, in other it was tests of
strength etc. Time passes, rules, orders
are created formalizing the combat. As
a result the emphasis moves away from
genetics to the sport itself.

There's an african saying;

If your ugly learn how to dance.

I'm not saying anyone on the board is ugly.
It means if you want to pull girls, you
need skills. Which indirectly returns
to main point, battling basically means
who has the biggest balls.... Ritualised
combat.

Breaking does not belong in the olympics,
it doesn't really belong on the stage,
it belongs in the circle, a well lit circle
at that. As was mentioned earlier it is a
culture, its a collection of like minded
people. Because something is physical
it does not mean that its a sport. You
are trying to bend something, your body
to your will, this is an act of art.

The point I'm trying to make is that
breaking is not a sport, its an art.
But they share the same roots, thats
its all about who has the biggest
balls.....

I thank you.
This has been a free lingering diatribe.

The Punisher
C.O.F
O.
Tron 2
M.
B.T.C

[P BADTASTECRU]

i love punisher...

------------------
"AYYY!!! YOU GUYS"..
Sloth, GOONIES

[Seraph]

First of all Punisher,
Thank you for proving my point. I appreciate
what you are attempting to say but I find some of your techniques a little off putting.
For example, if I may quote you:

"There's an african saying;
You're ugly if you dance."

I find this DEEPLY hurtful. I am very proud of my African heritage and I do not appreciate middle class white boys, such as yourself, demeaning it. Whilst I am sure your intentions are good, please spend a little time thinking about what you are saying.
Punisher, or anyone else, I would be grateful to here your thoughts on this matter.

[The Punisher]

Another of my favorites is:

Where many people piss, the ground is wet.

The Punisher
C.O.F
O.
Tron 2
M.
B.T.C

[JB]

Speaking as a person that pisses at least once a week I take great offence at that comment.

[The Punisher]

One would have to assmune that the ground
is probably not very wet at all then.

The Punisher
C.O.F
O.
Tron 2
M.
B.T.C

[2-bad]

ok im not a gymnist i am actulluy a breaker who feeels that as bboys we have taken styles from everywhere and we are involved in a sport aslthough we some points i dont thenk bboys sholud be allowed to run in do 1990s no toprick or footwork or down rock a nd come out and be classed as good it seems like everyone moving into powermoves more then style

[2-bad]

ok im not a gymnist i am actulluy a breaker who feeels that as bboys we have taken styles from everywhere and we are involved in a sport aslthough we some points i dont thenk bboys sholud be allowed to run in do 1990s no toprick or footwork or down rock a nd come out and be classed as good it seems like everyone moving into powermoves more then style
peace dawgs

[unknownbboy]

Don't you tend to find that anyone unfamiliar with bboying will barely acknowledge decent footwork yet applaud a windmill, are many of you'll coming to the comp. at gloucester? it should be pretty good!
peace

[Dextrous]

I think if BBoyin' became recognised as anything along the lines of a 'sport' it would be crap. First a group of people, probably not long term BBoys/heads, would try to set up some sort of association. on the contrary to what a few of you said, I dont think the judgements of a winner would be based on accuracy of execution etc. This 'association' would probably want to be 'cool'. They'd have graff, DJ's and shit and a big stage (probably circular) in which to break. Judges would probably be sport commentaters (like when the BBC had some old twat commentating a skate comp).The media would catch on big time (some may argue good or bad). I think its wrong. In truth BBoyin' is about showmanship but I think real BBoys who still have their heads screwed on don't do it all for the public. Thats the main reason I think it would be bad, because the public know shit.

[B-boy Timber, BCB]

I'm just worried in case it gets all serious and there is a 'uniform' designed (like in gymnastics) in which you have to wear to enter competitions. I can just see hoards of b-boys wearing lycra all body suits. I know some may believe these to be essential b-boy dress but they just aren't for me!!!!!! A case of thanx but no thanx all the same!!

------------------
Colin,
Style Is Everything Cru / Belfast City Breakers
B-boy Timber aka DJ Phat Chops

'Signin autographs on the inside of toilet doors!!!'

[d rock nck]

I can see what people mean that breakin could easily be made a sport due to the battling side of things as seraph said I also thing this is due to the big comps that have about in the last6/7 years with big sponsors lots of crews, judges,and publicity the big comps atracted alot more people than any regular breakin night the comp's atract people who would never go and watch b boyin or go to a hip hop jam on a regular,so I think its nearly there now in like an xtreme sports kind of way if you know what i mean?
at the minute i think its cool that big sponsors want a peice of it and that there are lots of big comp's but if it gets any bigger it could become very shit in my opinion because terible things would probably start to happen like people would be named official judges,lots of rules would start being introduced......does a sport have to have written rule's....am not sure?
but anyway ater allthat rambling i think it would be terrible!!!!!!!
D.rOcK NCK